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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptics own podcast

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episode number 543 for the 17th of March

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2019 Richard Saunders here with he once

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again coming to you from the Bay Area

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San Francisco and thank you so much to

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the Bay Area skeptics the other night I

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gave a talk in Berkeley about psychic

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detectives so-called psychic detectives

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and Australian crimes famous Australian

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crimes missing children grisly murders

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that sort of thing and it I think it

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went over very well the crowd seemed to

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enjoy it and there were lots of

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questions afterwards and as these things

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turn out my talk was in the evening

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which was fine for me because I only

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just arrived in the United States the

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day before but my body clock was still

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on Australian time which meant that my

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talk in the evening was roughly about

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lunchtime in Australia so I did fine

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it's just waking up in the mornings for

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the next few days is a bit tricky now

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this is the third time I've given this

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talk on psychic detectives actually gave

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it for the New South Wales Police Force

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and members of the Federal Police and

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Defence Force which was a great pleasure

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and I gave it that Sydney skeptics in

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the pub only week ago and it's a

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fascinating topic this whole idea of

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people claiming to be psychics and

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helping the police and as I discovered

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in my research from time to time some

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police actually do call in people who

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claim to have psychic insights and

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powers and it's all too easy to condemn

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police for doing that it's too quick I

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think to do that too quick to judge and

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part of the problem is as I see it

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police in general don't have the same

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background and dare I say training is

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skeptics in so much is that

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Mindi skeptics can understand the

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psychology of a typical reading what's

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really going on where something appears

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to be a psychic insight and turns out

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later not to be but why it does appear

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so and again and again when people ask

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me about this I fall back on them and

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what I think is a good analogy if you

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see a magician doing a magic trick right

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in front of your eyes you can be

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absolutely mystified and how that

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magician could possibly do it make the

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rabbit disappear make the penny appear

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appear to read your mind in the case of

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mentalism and you could spend the rest

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of your life not knowing and wondering

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but if you learn the trick if you read

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the book or the magician discloses the

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trick to you and you see it again it's

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obvious and well the trick is not so

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exciting anymore but it's not a trick

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anymore and this is the same sort of

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thing with a psychic reading and police

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officers can fall victim to this too and

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they can see a psychic reading in action

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or get information from a psychic and

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not realize the psychology in this case

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that represents the trick but once you

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know the tricks and the psychology of

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cold reading for example I spent a lot

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of time transcribing psychic readings

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and I've transcribed a police interview

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with a psychic and I could then pick

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that apart and see how the psychic was

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using well basic cold reading techniques

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again if you don't know how these cold

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reading techniques work you can be

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somewhat amazed and will get the

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Evergreen expression which is a big red

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flag to us they knew things they

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couldn't have possibly have known anyway

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thank you again to the Bay Area skeptics

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and I hope to give that talk again I

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might even save that up for Dragon Con

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in Atlanta Georgia later on in the year

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where I'm a scheduled to appear and talk

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longtime skeptic zone fans might

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remember that in the very early days of

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the skeptic zone 2008 2009 and 2010 I

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was at Dragon Con and did reports from

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there for those of you who don't know

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Dragon Con is a huge

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fantasy science fiction festival in

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Atlanta Georgia every year and it's when

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I say huge it really is huge it's

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thousands upon thousands of people

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turning up in all sorts of weird

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wonderful costumes and there has been a

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sceptical track run by my colleague and

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friend Derek : dunno and recent more

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recently with the assistance of dr.

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Angie Matt key anyway all that's coming

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up in the future

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but what's coming up in the short-term

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future on the skeptics zone podcast a

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bit of a truncated show once again due

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to my traveling around sometimes it's

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difficult to put a show together when

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there are a lot of other things going on

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and you will notice in this episode my

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voice seems to change quite a bit that's

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because I've been recording in different

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locations under different circumstances

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and I was just on the tail end of the

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flu or the cold or whatever I had so um

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I hope you understand we're going to be

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looking at a story concerning celebrity

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chef Pete Evans who a few years back won

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the bent spoon award from Australian

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sceptics and his apparent support for an

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anti-vaxxer Pete Evans is an influential

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man he has many Facebook followers so

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it's very worrying if someone like that

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is seen to support anti vaccination then

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life is wild with Michelle Franklin our

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reporter from Darwin with a very

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interesting point of view about what

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makes you think that your area your

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region your tribe is so special you've

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probably seen the meme yourself going

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around which says only in dot dot dot

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only in Darwin and it reminds me of

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quite often in Australia on the TV news

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the funny story at the end of the news

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will be something like well only in the

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United States dot dot dot dot and I'll

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have some sort of crazy story

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Michelle looks at some of the thinking

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behind this only in meme then the

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continuing story of something we've been

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covering for quite some time

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this is the PhD awarded to Julie Y

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Lehman who is a well-known anti-vaxxer

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and recent criticism now of that PhD

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after it's been studied by other experts

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this is the same woman who has been

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recorded shouting and screaming at

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vaccination meetings to sort of shout

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down the doctors talking on stage and

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she charges quite a high fee to be an

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expert witness in court cases too then

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we have an interview by our

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correspondent in Canberra Kevin Davies

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we quite often run promotions for the

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Canberra skeptics and their events and

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just the other week they had a talk

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about GMO and this particular talk was

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titled talking plain about GMOs we have

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interviews with Jose Barrera and Martina

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digger Aris I'll add a link in the show

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notes but their website is GMO only

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and.com one word then to round off the

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show we have a statement a recently

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published statement a restating a

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reinforcing of the position of

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Australian skeptics Inc when it comes to

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climate change now for too long we have

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been accused and you probably get this

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yourself of being a climate change

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skeptic oh you skeptics you don't even

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believe we went to the moon or oh you

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skeptics you're skeptical about climate

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change so the Australian skeptics have

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put out a strong statement reinforcing

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the fact that no that that doesn't mean

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that the Australian skeptics or

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skeptical groups or organizations are

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skeptical of fill in the dots dot dot

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dot climate change or people going to

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the moon or whatever the case may be

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actually one of the strangest examples I

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ever had of that was somebody said to me

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once you skeptics you'd thought the

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world was flat what do you say to that

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you skeptics he once thought the world

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was flat

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yeah okay or speaking of that those of

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you who have Netflix if you have not

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seen the documentary beyond the curve

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then I can thoroughly recommend that it

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is really a fascinating insight into

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psychology more than anything else I

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think and it's getting quite a bit of

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notoriety for the fact that right at the

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end of the documentary we have flat

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earth proponents trying to prove their

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point of view using science and the

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amazing results they get anyway I can

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recommend it beyond the curve which is

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available at the moment on Netflix and

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it may be available on other platforms

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to stay tuned at the end of the show for

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more announcements from me but now it's

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time for me to run upstairs

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oh yes run upstairs this time have me a

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nice cup of coffee and a bagel while I

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do that I hope you enjoy the skeptic

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zone

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[Music]

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now here's a quick note regarding a past

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bent spoon winner

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the Australian skeptics Bend spoon award

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for the perpetrator of the most

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preposterous piece of paranormal

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pseudo-scientific biffle a few years

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back this was won by celebrity chef Hiep

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evans and as we note published in Daily

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Telegraph by Jane Hansen celebrity chef

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P Devon's supports anti-vaxxer pull

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check on social media

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anti-flu ride auntie sunscreen anti

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dairy celebrity chef Pete Evans has now

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revealed his anti vaccination stripes in

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a post supporting well-known anti-vaxxer

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poll check who has not vaccinated his

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own children and supports the widely

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panned conspiracy movement VAX

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check a holistic health practitioner

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exercise coach and registered Native

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American spirit guide and medicine man

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has claimed quote your health is being

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stolen din quote due to vaccinations

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mister check endorses the Baxter

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documentary view that immunisation

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causes autism a link that has been

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disproved in over 100 large

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epidemiological studies mr. evans the My

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Kitchen Rules star posted his

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endorsement of poor checks recent

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podcast with dr. Shari Tenpenny to his

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1.5 million Facebook followers and two

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hundred and seven thousand Instagram

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so I'm sure there's gonna be more about

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that if that is the case but an update

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from one of our paid spoon winners or

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about one of our pin spoon winners

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celebrity chef Pete Evans

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hi I'm Darrin McKee one of the hosts of

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the reality check each week my co-host

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and I explore a range of controversies

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and curiosities using science and

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critical thinking you can find us on

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iTunes your favorite podcasting platform

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and on Facebook by searching for the

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reality check or by following us on

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Twitter at TRC underscore podcast until

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then keep an open mind but not so open

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your brain falls out life is wild with

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Michele Franklin do you live in a place

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that's unique you have the best beaches

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or the funniest traditions do you have

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the coolest origin story or maybe even

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the most extreme weather I bet you do

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and I know I do I think most people

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probably think there's some aspect of

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their home or their community or their

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country or their town that's special

274
00:13:52,129 --> 00:13:49,529
that makes them feel either proud or

275
00:13:56,199 --> 00:13:52,139
maybe even ashamed but there's something

276
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:56,209
really unique about their own situation

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00:14:01,879 --> 00:13:59,279
picture the memes a photo of someone

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00:14:04,909 --> 00:14:01,889
doing something particularly stupid or

279
00:14:09,079 --> 00:14:04,919
something embarrassing maybe something

280
00:14:13,970 --> 00:14:09,089
hilarious but always unique and the

281
00:14:15,289 --> 00:14:13,980
caption says only in wherever and I bet

282
00:14:17,079 --> 00:14:15,299
if you think about it you can come up

283
00:14:20,509 --> 00:14:17,089
with a few examples from your own life

284
00:14:22,789 --> 00:14:20,519
I'll tell you a couple of mine I live

285
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:22,799
near Darwin now weather is usually

286
00:14:30,559 --> 00:14:27,360
either hot and wet or hot and dry and we

287
00:14:32,239 --> 00:14:30,569
have cyclones and crocodiles discounting

288
00:14:33,909 --> 00:14:32,249
the fact that we can only survive in a

289
00:14:36,559 --> 00:14:33,919
temperature range of about 6 degrees

290
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:36,569
variation and snow would likely kill us

291
00:14:40,729 --> 00:14:38,730
we're pretty proud of our weather and

292
00:14:43,340 --> 00:14:40,739
our crocodiles and how they reflect on

293
00:14:45,710 --> 00:14:43,350
us as individuals we tend to think that

294
00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:45,720
we're better than the southerners which

295
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:47,670
is basically a term that means

296
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:50,610
anyone except for us and I say we

297
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:52,800
because I totally buy into this madness

298
00:14:57,770 --> 00:14:55,410
I feel like the people around me are so

299
00:15:01,760 --> 00:14:57,780
much more clever and tough and cool than

300
00:15:03,950 --> 00:15:01,770
those other people from over there but

301
00:15:06,170 --> 00:15:03,960
in reality I know I'm no different from

302
00:15:08,510 --> 00:15:06,180
anyone else because I bet you could

303
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:08,520
think of a similar list of things that

304
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:11,010
make you and and your group better than

305
00:15:16,610 --> 00:15:14,610
everyone else - and that's okay we all

306
00:15:19,940 --> 00:15:16,620
have something that we hold onto you

307
00:15:21,710 --> 00:15:19,950
that we think makes us special even if

308
00:15:23,810 --> 00:15:21,720
it's as simple as living in a town with

309
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:23,820
a funny sounding name and using that to

310
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:26,690
get attention not that I would do that

311
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,490
in recent years I've noticed an increase

312
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:31,680
in the use of the term only in wherever

313
00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:34,890
as a meme for various socially

314
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:37,590
agreed-upon topics for me it's usually

315
00:15:43,790 --> 00:15:40,650
only in Darwin or only in Australia and

316
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:43,800
some photo or other of a crocodile or a

317
00:15:47,450 --> 00:15:46,050
snake or a spider or even a derelict

318
00:15:49,850 --> 00:15:47,460
looking person in a funny situation

319
00:15:51,740 --> 00:15:49,860
that's either surprising or funny I've

320
00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:51,750
seen a few versions of this from other

321
00:15:56,540 --> 00:15:53,910
places where other socially relevant

322
00:16:00,620 --> 00:15:56,550
situations sometimes involving politics

323
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:00,630
or local culture or ridiculous hipsters

324
00:16:04,370 --> 00:16:02,490
and the amusing clothes that they wear

325
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:04,380
and the crazy things that they eat from

326
00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:06,450
which are most definitely not real bowls

327
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:09,870
but repeatedly I see the same recurring

328
00:16:15,710 --> 00:16:13,770
theme of only in wherever usually I find

329
00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:15,720
these names quite funny and I enjoy

330
00:16:20,570 --> 00:16:17,820
seeing crazy situations that other

331
00:16:22,850 --> 00:16:20,580
people deal with but I have a small

332
00:16:25,940 --> 00:16:22,860
issue with it and I guess it comes from

333
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:25,950
knowing my own home well but being

334
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:28,770
pretty naive of anywhere else I tend to

335
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:30,570
believe the memes whenever I see them

336
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:33,330
why would they lie except the ones that

337
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:36,710
are from my town they're so often wrong

338
00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:39,570
so I can only assume that the ones from

339
00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:41,550
other places are likely are wrong as

340
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:43,620
well the one that bothered me most

341
00:16:47,450 --> 00:16:45,210
recently was a photo of a large

342
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:47,460
crocodile swimming very close to a small

343
00:16:52,340 --> 00:16:50,250
boat and the people in it calmly taking

344
00:16:55,250 --> 00:16:52,350
a photo rather than panicking and trying

345
00:16:58,180 --> 00:16:55,260
to escape this image has been shared by

346
00:17:01,310 --> 00:16:58,190
my local newspaper shared by my friends

347
00:17:03,770 --> 00:17:01,320
and in all of our local

348
00:17:07,610 --> 00:17:03,780
community groups on Facebook with the

349
00:17:09,530 --> 00:17:07,620
three famous words only in Darwin it's

350
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:09,540
funny and all and it's good getting

351
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:11,370
attention and scaring your southern

352
00:17:16,370 --> 00:17:14,160
relatives except that there was one

353
00:17:18,860 --> 00:17:16,380
minor problem the animal in the photo

354
00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:18,870
was an alligator so clearly it's not

355
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:21,750
only in Darwin and it's not even in

356
00:17:26,449 --> 00:17:24,480
Darwin a similar one came up for me a

357
00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:26,459
few months back of a large crocodile

358
00:17:31,670 --> 00:17:29,190
swimming along in a marina with a dog in

359
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:31,680
its mouth this time it was actually a

360
00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:33,360
real crocodile but it was clearly an

361
00:17:39,530 --> 00:17:36,390
American crocodile and again it says

362
00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:39,540
only in Darwin and the comments thread

363
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:41,910
was full of down folk tagging their

364
00:17:46,060 --> 00:17:43,530
interstate and international friends

365
00:17:48,050 --> 00:17:46,070
saying see what we live with implying

366
00:17:50,810 --> 00:17:48,060
see how cool we are

367
00:17:52,730 --> 00:17:50,820
I even overheard a conversation where

368
00:17:55,220 --> 00:17:52,740
people were arguing over which local

369
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:55,230
marina had been filmed at and people

370
00:17:59,030 --> 00:17:57,120
were convinced it would be on the news

371
00:18:00,770 --> 00:17:59,040
tomorrow not even checking the date to

372
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:00,780
realize that the videos been circulating

373
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:03,210
but quite a while already there's also

374
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:05,490
one that came to me in an email

375
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:08,370
where the stories hold of a crocodile in

376
00:18:14,050 --> 00:18:10,050
Queensland that had been injured and

377
00:18:16,820 --> 00:18:14,060
became tame and was now a friendly pet

378
00:18:18,860 --> 00:18:16,830
this time the story clearly named a

379
00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:18,870
specific river in Queenslanders and

380
00:18:23,150 --> 00:18:20,460
described the incident where the

381
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:23,160
crocodile had been injured and this time

382
00:18:28,940 --> 00:18:26,970
it said only in North Queensland the

383
00:18:31,370 --> 00:18:28,950
relative who sent it to me had clearly

384
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:31,380
not read the story closely enough to

385
00:18:35,540 --> 00:18:32,850
notice that the crocodiles name was

386
00:18:39,530 --> 00:18:35,550
poacher and the man who befriended him

387
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:39,540
was Gilberto cheeto and it was also

388
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:42,570
clearly an American crocodile he even

389
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:44,970
has his own Wikipedia page that took me

390
00:18:49,070 --> 00:18:47,370
about one second to find on Google I've

391
00:18:51,410 --> 00:18:49,080
been stewing over this for a few weeks

392
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:51,420
and wondering what it all means and I

393
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:53,280
think I've decided that I need to stop

394
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:54,810
sharing these memes and stop

395
00:18:59,720 --> 00:18:56,970
perpetuating the exceptionalism that I

396
00:19:02,570 --> 00:18:59,730
feel my town and by extension the people

397
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:02,580
around me are worthy of because I can

398
00:19:06,380 --> 00:19:04,530
see that while it's fun to imply that

399
00:19:08,750 --> 00:19:06,390
we're special in unique for our weather

400
00:19:10,910 --> 00:19:08,760
and our wildlife it doesn't take long to

401
00:19:13,220 --> 00:19:10,920
realize that most of us don't actually

402
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:13,230
recognize the difference between us and

403
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:14,010
them

404
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:16,890
we just keep telling ourselves that it's

405
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:19,679
there and we're different and what their

406
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:21,690
other I think what I've learned from

407
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:24,330
this is that the image that we see is us

408
00:19:30,110 --> 00:19:26,690
and they the image that we see is them

409
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:30,120
pretty much the same thing and as much

410
00:19:34,370 --> 00:19:32,010
as we tell ourselves that we're so

411
00:19:36,110 --> 00:19:34,380
different if you take down the labels

412
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:36,120
and switch them around none of us can

413
00:20:06,230 --> 00:19:37,730
really tell the difference

414
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:07,610
[Music]

415
00:20:12,270 --> 00:20:10,720
olice less habla Paola the Dallaire

416
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:12,280
Moses with other Buenos Aires in

417
00:20:17,010 --> 00:20:15,280
Argentina when the couch ammos podcasts

418
00:20:20,370 --> 00:20:17,020
a couch Imola mimic a couch a todo el

419
00:20:22,620 --> 00:20:20,380
mundo como the skeptic zone ojala pueden

420
00:20:24,420 --> 00:20:22,630
venir a visit Ana's algun dia que hace

421
00:20:29,780 --> 00:20:24,430
para mo con nuestra Ricky Sima comida

422
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:31,310
[Music]

423
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:33,760
mientras tanto sugandha fruit and OD

424
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:35,890
pseudo see same analogy NCI pensamiento

425
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:56,060
[Music]

426
00:21:01,520 --> 00:20:59,200
from the website of Australian skeptics

427
00:21:05,250 --> 00:21:01,530
we read published on the 5th of March

428
00:21:08,330 --> 00:21:05,260
2019 by Tim Mendham review finds why

429
00:21:17,549 --> 00:21:08,340
Lehman ante VAX

430
00:21:20,070 --> 00:21:17,559
incomplete biased and flawed a recent

431
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,080
study by four researchers has raised

432
00:21:25,649 --> 00:21:23,200
serious concerns over the notorious PhD

433
00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:25,659
thesis written by leading anti-vaxxer

434
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:28,960
Judy why Lehman which earned her a PhD

435
00:21:32,159 --> 00:21:30,970
from the University of Wollongong in

436
00:21:35,250 --> 00:21:32,169
2015

437
00:21:37,470 --> 00:21:35,260
called quote a critical analysis of the

438
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:37,480
australian government's rationale for

439
00:21:42,690 --> 00:21:40,000
its vaccination policy end quote

440
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:42,700
while Eamon's thesis describes what she

441
00:21:48,419 --> 00:21:45,610
calls quote the political framework in

442
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:48,429
which policy is affected by biased

443
00:21:55,230 --> 00:21:51,760
science or undone underfunded science

444
00:21:57,510 --> 00:21:55,240
end quote and claims quote the existence

445
00:22:00,060 --> 00:21:57,520
of institutional barriers to carrying

446
00:22:02,370 --> 00:22:00,070
out independent research including on

447
00:22:05,220 --> 00:22:02,380
topics unwelcome to groups with vested

448
00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:05,230
interests men quote she included

449
00:22:11,370 --> 00:22:08,230
collusion between health industry and

450
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:11,380
health authorities particularly that the

451
00:22:16,890 --> 00:22:14,110
World Health Organization quote is

452
00:22:19,409 --> 00:22:16,900
perceived to be out of touch with global

453
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:19,419
communities and it is controlled by the

454
00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:21,970
interests of corporations and the World

455
00:22:26,669 --> 00:22:24,880
Bank banquet why Lehman is also

456
00:22:29,010 --> 00:22:26,679
presenting herself as an expert witness

457
00:22:31,620 --> 00:22:29,020
in cases where parents disagree on

458
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:31,630
vaccinating their children the recent

459
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:33,610
study by three researchers from the

460
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:36,010
faculty of medicine and health at Sydney

461
00:22:42,510 --> 00:22:39,490
University Kari Wiley Julie Liske

462
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:42,520
and Margaret Burgess and professor Peter

463
00:22:46,380 --> 00:22:44,799
McIntyre director of the National Center

464
00:22:48,750 --> 00:22:46,390
for immunization research and

465
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:48,760
surveillance was published this month in

466
00:22:55,919 --> 00:22:52,240
the vaccine Journal they described the

467
00:22:58,940 --> 00:22:55,929
thesis is based on quote in complete

468
00:23:02,250 --> 00:22:58,950
flawed technical assertions and quote

469
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:02,260
quote this thesis is notable for its

470
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:04,450
lack of evidence of a systematic

471
00:23:09,930 --> 00:23:07,330
literature review despite its extensive

472
00:23:11,910 --> 00:23:09,940
claims there is no primary research but

473
00:23:13,980 --> 00:23:11,920
there is abundant evidence of strong

474
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:13,990
bias in selecting the literature cited

475
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:17,170
and sometimes outright misrepresentation

476
00:23:22,260 --> 00:23:19,570
of the facts when quoted the study

477
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:22,270
authors say that while Eamon's thesis

478
00:23:27,150 --> 00:23:24,850
has been downloaded more than twenty-one

479
00:23:29,130 --> 00:23:27,160
thousand times but to date there was no

480
00:23:31,770 --> 00:23:29,140
cite able peer-reviewed critical

481
00:23:34,980 --> 00:23:31,780
appraisal of the methodological rigor of

482
00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:34,990
the work quote our research with non

483
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:38,080
vaccinating parents suggests that some

484
00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:40,000
are considering the thesis in their

485
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:42,370
decision making and healthcare providers

486
00:23:46,530 --> 00:23:44,170
who may be questioned about it by

487
00:23:48,930 --> 00:23:46,540
vaccine hesitant parents have no such

488
00:23:52,380 --> 00:23:48,940
resource to aid their discussions end

489
00:23:55,530 --> 00:23:52,390
quote the thesis journey to final PhD

490
00:23:57,870 --> 00:23:55,540
status was not smooth based on documents

491
00:24:01,320 --> 00:23:57,880
released by the university under a jeep

492
00:24:04,140 --> 00:24:01,330
IP a Freedom of Information request one

493
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:04,150
of two unnamed examiner's who reviewed

494
00:24:09,390 --> 00:24:06,010
the thesis suggested that it was

495
00:24:11,850 --> 00:24:09,400
definitely not worth of achieving PhD

496
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:11,860
status and was more in line with a

497
00:24:16,350 --> 00:24:13,210
master's degree level

498
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:16,360
the examiner expressed quote serious

499
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:18,880
concern about the lack of engagement

500
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:20,890
with existing literature and the lack of

501
00:24:25,950 --> 00:24:23,440
an appropriate theoretical framework in

502
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:25,960
quote they also felt that the thesis

503
00:24:31,140 --> 00:24:28,240
showed no evidence that while Heymann

504
00:24:33,420 --> 00:24:31,150
conducted original research nor that it

505
00:24:35,370 --> 00:24:33,430
demonstrated that she had made quote a

506
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:35,380
significant contribution to the

507
00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:37,930
knowledge of the subject in quote the

508
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:40,270
university then sought a third review

509
00:24:44,970 --> 00:24:42,730
which likewise found problems with the

510
00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:44,980
thesis but after revisions it was

511
00:24:49,380 --> 00:24:47,830
approved for the award the doctorate was

512
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:49,390
awarded through the Faculty of Law

513
00:24:56,550 --> 00:24:53,290
humanities and the arts ie not a

514
00:24:59,640 --> 00:24:56,560
scientific or medical faculty the study

515
00:25:01,860 --> 00:24:59,650
authors say that quote the quality of

516
00:25:04,290 --> 00:25:01,870
writing and presentation of the thesis

517
00:25:06,420 --> 00:25:04,300
is such that many of its arguments could

518
00:25:08,790 --> 00:25:06,430
seem less plausible to an examiner

519
00:25:11,670 --> 00:25:08,800
without specific content knowledge

520
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:11,680
despite sound academic credentials our

521
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:14,320
combined expertise vaccinology

522
00:25:18,060 --> 00:25:16,330
epidemiology and the history and

523
00:25:20,820 --> 00:25:18,070
practice of immunization policy

524
00:25:24,510 --> 00:25:20,830
development globally and you know

525
00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:24,520
social science and as PhD examiners both

526
00:25:28,919 --> 00:25:26,590
gives us detailed knowledge of the

527
00:25:31,860 --> 00:25:28,929
sources cited by the thesis and allows

528
00:25:34,860 --> 00:25:31,870
us to identify key deficiencies main

529
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:34,870
quote they go on to say quote the thesis

530
00:25:39,930 --> 00:25:37,840
is presented as a critical analysis of

531
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:39,940
the Australian Government's rationale

532
00:25:45,029 --> 00:25:42,490
for its vaccine policy a critical

533
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:45,039
analysis should consider the merits and

534
00:25:50,340 --> 00:25:47,890
faults of an issue and be conducted in a

535
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:50,350
way that is not designed to find only

536
00:25:56,190 --> 00:25:52,690
evidence for the writers predetermined

537
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:56,200
conclusions quote this thesis does not

538
00:26:01,230 --> 00:25:58,240
include methods for assessing the

539
00:26:03,990 --> 00:26:01,240
literature does not discuss aspects of

540
00:26:07,169 --> 00:26:04,000
identified studies which may contradict

541
00:26:10,110 --> 00:26:07,179
one another or attempt to establish the

542
00:26:11,940 --> 00:26:10,120
quality of relevant studies rather the

543
00:26:14,610 --> 00:26:11,950
references used are highly selective

544
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:14,620
only citing a small number of the

545
00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:16,960
available epidemiological studies and

546
00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:20,049
clinical trial reports all of which are

547
00:26:25,620 --> 00:26:22,720
interpreted to support conclusions which

548
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:25,630
are predetermined in quota some have

549
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,240
suggested that because the PhD was

550
00:26:34,260 --> 00:26:30,880
awarded through a humanities faculty it

551
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:34,270
would not be expected to quote present a

552
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:36,400
detailed and systematic literature

553
00:26:44,159 --> 00:26:39,970
review or undertake primary research and

554
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:44,169
quote quote we argue that a thesis which

555
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,330
explicitly sets out to examine

556
00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:48,640
government vaccination policies

557
00:26:52,860 --> 00:26:50,289
including an assertion on the

558
00:26:54,899 --> 00:26:52,870
underpinning scientific evidence and the

559
00:26:57,149 --> 00:26:54,909
stakeholders who have influence in the

560
00:26:59,490 --> 00:26:57,159
decision-making process irrespective of

561
00:27:01,440 --> 00:26:59,500
the faculty or discipline in which it is

562
00:27:03,539 --> 00:27:01,450
conducted should use methods for

563
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:03,549
identifying and asserting scientific

564
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:06,610
evidence of comparable rigor to those

565
00:27:14,770 --> 00:27:09,010
used by academic and scientific bodies

566
00:27:25,489 --> 00:27:21,940
[Music]

567
00:27:27,399 --> 00:27:25,499
hi this is Heidi Robertson from the

568
00:27:30,279 --> 00:27:27,409
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

569
00:27:32,899 --> 00:27:30,289
we are a group of concerned citizens

570
00:27:35,479 --> 00:27:32,909
dedicated to promoting good science and

571
00:27:38,599 --> 00:27:35,489
common sense in our region the far north

572
00:27:40,159 --> 00:27:38,609
coast of New South Wales this area are

573
00:27:43,310 --> 00:27:40,169
famous for its natural beauty and

574
00:27:46,849 --> 00:27:43,320
relaxed lifestyle also has the lowest

575
00:27:49,129 --> 00:27:46,859
rates of vaccination in Australia we are

576
00:27:51,469 --> 00:27:49,139
out to change that by challenging the

577
00:27:53,149 --> 00:27:51,479
myths and misinformation and by

578
00:27:56,479 --> 00:27:53,159
providing good evidence-based

579
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,489
information to the community we'd love

580
00:28:01,940 --> 00:27:58,320
for you no matter where you are in the

581
00:28:09,769 --> 00:28:01,950
world to join our fight please visit our

582
00:28:12,829 --> 00:28:09,779
webpage at WWF info we also have a link

583
00:28:15,469 --> 00:28:12,839
there to our Facebook page tweet us at

584
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:15,479
in our FAQs supporters

585
00:28:20,919 --> 00:28:18,690
that's VIX and check us out on Wikipedia

586
00:28:26,490 --> 00:28:20,929
by searching for Northern Rivers

587
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:38,260
[Music]

588
00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:45,370
oh hi I am here in Canberra and I'm

589
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:49,910
speaking with Jose Marrero Marina three

590
00:28:54,430 --> 00:28:52,490
Gators nice to meet you all welcome to

591
00:28:59,080 --> 00:28:54,440
camera skeptics thank you so much for

592
00:29:00,220 --> 00:28:59,090
inviting us now can we just throw out

593
00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:00,230
it's gonna tell us a little bit about

594
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:01,480
this yourselves

595
00:29:07,810 --> 00:29:05,840
well I'm scientist of my Spanish

596
00:29:09,730 --> 00:29:07,820
background you can tell about my accent

597
00:29:12,730 --> 00:29:09,740
that I've been working on the field of

598
00:29:15,390 --> 00:29:12,740
plant genetics for the last few years in

599
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:15,400
a number of research organizations and

600
00:29:22,030 --> 00:29:19,370
we use GMOs regularly in our day-to-day

601
00:29:24,970 --> 00:29:22,040
work we thought in studying an

602
00:29:29,010 --> 00:29:24,980
initiative to promote and explain why

603
00:29:32,020 --> 00:29:29,020
emos are useful to people and society

604
00:29:34,180 --> 00:29:32,030
for my research using my molecular

605
00:29:36,490 --> 00:29:34,190
biology and I have moved to science

606
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:36,500
communication and I'm working as a

607
00:29:42,190 --> 00:29:39,050
science illustrator and 3d animator a

608
00:29:45,580 --> 00:29:42,200
terrible design tourism you're here to

609
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:45,590
talk today a special you run GMO only

610
00:29:50,260 --> 00:29:47,120
can you tell us a little bit about GMO

611
00:29:53,790 --> 00:29:50,270
only of course this is a small

612
00:29:57,910 --> 00:29:53,800
initiative of three three partners three

613
00:30:02,470 --> 00:29:57,920
scientists the working in plant genetics

614
00:30:04,810 --> 00:30:02,480
were exposed early to genetic technology

615
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:04,820
biotechnology in aiding engineering

616
00:30:10,419 --> 00:30:08,330
genetic modification and we're aware of

617
00:30:13,060 --> 00:30:10,429
the benefits that the technology can

618
00:30:15,790 --> 00:30:13,070
bring to collapse in agriculture but

619
00:30:18,970 --> 00:30:15,800
also were worried or concerned about the

620
00:30:22,450 --> 00:30:18,980
slow adoption of these techniques due to

621
00:30:24,190 --> 00:30:22,460
the main streams concerns that exist in

622
00:30:27,070 --> 00:30:24,200
society so we can with this initiative

623
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:27,080
to talk very clearly about GMOs explain

624
00:30:33,970 --> 00:30:32,090
things clearly to people I'm trying to

625
00:30:36,490 --> 00:30:33,980
promote the benefits that would have

626
00:30:39,370 --> 00:30:36,500
been seen is as being researchers we

627
00:30:41,710 --> 00:30:39,380
have seen all the benefits that EMS can

628
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:41,720
have and all the bad press that

629
00:30:46,900 --> 00:30:44,000
being having another potential that it

630
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:46,910
has so we tried to get to the general

631
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:49,850
public and explain them what it is and

632
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:52,480
what they can be use and why can be good

633
00:30:57,580 --> 00:30:54,320
why do you think there is such

634
00:30:59,800 --> 00:30:57,590
opposition to GMO I think there are a

635
00:31:03,190 --> 00:30:59,810
number of issues we discussed we will

636
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:03,200
discuss today in the talk but in my

637
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:04,960
opinion I think there is a lot of

638
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:07,130
misunderstandings and different topic

639
00:31:11,890 --> 00:31:09,650
brought together into the e mo debate

640
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:11,900
that are not necessarily linked with the

641
00:31:18,730 --> 00:31:14,720
biotechnology itself people mix things

642
00:31:21,550 --> 00:31:18,740
like this is only bringing benefit to

643
00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:21,560
big corporations all people bring things

644
00:31:26,230 --> 00:31:23,510
religious things like this is playing

645
00:31:29,620 --> 00:31:26,240
God but to be honest this is a

646
00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:29,630
technology the human has and is no

647
00:31:34,570 --> 00:31:30,820
difference to the use of mobile phones

648
00:31:37,030 --> 00:31:34,580
or the users all the things is just a

649
00:31:41,170 --> 00:31:37,040
tool and is how you use it to bring some

650
00:31:43,890 --> 00:31:41,180
benefits or negativity and in your world

651
00:31:47,860 --> 00:31:43,900
as a size communicator help you use your

652
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:47,870
skills to promote GMO so I think our

653
00:31:54,370 --> 00:31:50,770
idea with the game only was making some

654
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:54,380
impact phrases impact works trying to

655
00:31:59,440 --> 00:31:56,090
attract the people making it more

656
00:32:01,540 --> 00:31:59,450
attractive the the way of like for

657
00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:01,550
example with with the t-shirts the way

658
00:32:05,380 --> 00:32:03,710
of starting a conversation so you are

659
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:05,390
wearing one of those teachers and people

660
00:32:10,210 --> 00:32:08,090
is asking you are normally mmm you are

661
00:32:11,860 --> 00:32:10,220
promoting the GMOs that that's we are

662
00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:11,870
why so that's when you start the

663
00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:13,340
conversation and try to display

664
00:32:18,370 --> 00:32:15,710
why we think they are good as a

665
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:18,380
possibility and what do you think the

666
00:32:26,220 --> 00:32:22,610
biggest misconception about GMO I think

667
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:26,230
the biggest misconception is thinking

668
00:32:33,490 --> 00:32:29,360
that is playing God I think it is

669
00:32:35,770 --> 00:32:33,500
because because since and firms have

670
00:32:38,170 --> 00:32:35,780
been insisting that the food that we are

671
00:32:41,260 --> 00:32:38,180
eating right now is totally different

672
00:32:44,020 --> 00:32:41,270
- let's call it natural way we'll be

673
00:32:46,740 --> 00:32:44,030
modifying in a different steps and now

674
00:32:48,850 --> 00:32:46,750
we can do this kind of steps faster but

675
00:32:52,060 --> 00:32:48,860
modification has been occurring because

676
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:52,070
thus a lot of people in so we need to

677
00:32:57,010 --> 00:32:54,640
correct I felt as marina said

678
00:33:00,010 --> 00:32:57,020
distinguishing differentiate in this new

679
00:33:02,140 --> 00:33:00,020
way to create crops from the other way

680
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:02,150
the people thing is more natural like

681
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:04,010
traditional breeding of domestication

682
00:33:10,270 --> 00:33:07,570
while both things will go to the same

683
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:10,280
finish line and the human has been very

684
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:13,760
violent and I think that's it yeah okay

685
00:33:16,690 --> 00:33:15,200
well it looks like people are beginning

686
00:33:20,020 --> 00:33:16,700
to move in so I think we'll wrap this up

687
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:20,030
so how can we can people find you and

688
00:33:25,090 --> 00:33:21,770
how can they find out more about GMO

689
00:33:29,140 --> 00:33:25,100
only well the issue where we'll be in

690
00:33:31,180 --> 00:33:29,150
Google Guillermo only calm but also we

691
00:33:34,540 --> 00:33:31,190
are quite active in Twitter especially

692
00:33:39,190 --> 00:33:34,550
so it is he also to find our Google so

693
00:33:39,580 --> 00:33:39,200
if you will GM only ok thank you very

694
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:39,590
much

695
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:49,210
[Laughter]

696
00:33:55,460 --> 00:33:52,080
aliens are probing people and mutilating

697
00:33:57,620 --> 00:33:55,470
cows 9/11 was an inside job

698
00:34:00,320 --> 00:33:57,630
I'm the oppa to clean up my athlete's

699
00:34:02,990 --> 00:34:00,330
foot vaccines cause autism

700
00:34:06,140 --> 00:34:03,000
not all the sockets at clematis lawn is

701
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:06,150
definitely real we all have friends and

702
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:07,890
family who believe these things and much

703
00:34:12,590 --> 00:34:10,530
more well if you're a rational thinker

704
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:12,600
who is tired of arguing on social media

705
00:34:16,580 --> 00:34:14,370
and never getting anywhere we have a

706
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:16,590
solution for you join the guerrilla

707
00:34:21,650 --> 00:34:19,290
skepticism on wikipedia team and we will

708
00:34:23,780 --> 00:34:21,660
teach you how to add reliable scientific

709
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:23,790
and skeptical information to the world's

710
00:34:28,220 --> 00:34:25,610
number-one source of information

711
00:34:30,290 --> 00:34:28,230
Wikipedia we write new articles and

712
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:30,300
improve existing ones we remove

713
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:32,310
pseudoscience paranormal and altmed

714
00:34:37,010 --> 00:34:34,800
claims substituting the actual facts and

715
00:34:39,020 --> 00:34:37,020
we operate in many languages we've

716
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:39,030
already reached tens of millions of

717
00:34:43,310 --> 00:34:41,520
people searching for information but as

718
00:34:46,970 --> 00:34:43,320
you can imagine we can never do enough

719
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:46,980
so please join us all you need is a PC a

720
00:34:51,740 --> 00:34:49,290
Facebook account and the desire to help

721
00:34:53,390 --> 00:34:51,750
educate the planet in fact you'll be

722
00:34:58,210 --> 00:34:53,400
educating the world while you sleep

723
00:35:01,810 --> 00:34:58,220
contact us at G is Oh W team @ gmail.com

724
00:35:08,850 --> 00:35:01,820
guerrilla skepticism the time is now

725
00:35:08,860 --> 00:35:24,900
[Music]

726
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:27,720
now in the last week the world saw

727
00:35:34,330 --> 00:35:30,800
action being taken against climate

728
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:34,340
change in the form of large protests by

729
00:35:40,210 --> 00:35:37,730
students all around the world Sydney

730
00:35:42,790 --> 00:35:40,220
Australia was no an exception but I

731
00:35:44,250 --> 00:35:42,800
noticed also in in Europe and across the

732
00:35:46,930 --> 00:35:44,260
United States and other countries

733
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:46,940
students marching out of school too much

734
00:35:57,310 --> 00:35:49,910
in support of action against climate

735
00:35:59,680 --> 00:35:57,320
change and this prompts me to once again

736
00:36:03,460 --> 00:35:59,690
go to the website of Australian skeptic

737
00:36:05,230 --> 00:36:03,470
skeptics Comden au to read the statement

738
00:36:06,820 --> 00:36:05,240
a recent statement put out by the Strand

739
00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:06,830
skeptics about climate change

740
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:09,710
Australian skeptics Inc statement on

741
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:17,570
climate change in 2010 Australian

742
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:20,090
skeptics Inc released a statement about

743
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:22,970
the troubling use of the term skeptics

744
00:36:30,130 --> 00:36:26,240
spelt with a k or sceptics spelt with a

745
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:30,140
C in the context of climate change we

746
00:36:36,510 --> 00:36:32,450
now expand our position on so-called

747
00:36:40,060 --> 00:36:36,520
quote climate change skepticism in quote

748
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:40,070
after more than 60 years of research the

749
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:43,010
agreement amongst scientists is that the

750
00:36:49,420 --> 00:36:45,890
climate is changing and that change is

751
00:36:51,610 --> 00:36:49,430
mostly human-induced the agreement is as

752
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:51,620
strong as that concerning evolution and

753
00:36:58,150 --> 00:36:55,090
the safety and efficacy of vaccines

754
00:37:01,290 --> 00:36:58,160
among experts disagreement about the

755
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:01,300
core elements is almost non-existent

756
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:03,650
scientists have been cautious in their

757
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:06,170
assessment of the evidence over time

758
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:08,810
most observations have turned out to be

759
00:37:14,740 --> 00:37:12,170
in the worst case range of predictions a

760
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:14,750
far cry from the alarmism climate

761
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:17,690
scientists are often accused off it is

762
00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:19,760
not just scientists that treat climate

763
00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:22,240
change is real and a serious threat

764
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:24,000
organizations around the

765
00:37:28,820 --> 00:37:26,730
from militaries to food manufacturers to

766
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:28,830
insurance companies are factoring the

767
00:37:34,580 --> 00:37:31,200
scientific predictions into their

768
00:37:37,490 --> 00:37:34,590
planning from a practical perspective we

769
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:37,500
can indeed we must take climate change

770
00:37:43,609 --> 00:37:41,760
and its human cause as fact Australian

771
00:37:47,330 --> 00:37:43,619
skeptics Inc views climate change

772
00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:47,340
skepticism as a form of denialism like

773
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:49,260
creationism and anti vaccination

774
00:37:54,849 --> 00:37:52,290
rhetoric it ignores the experts in the

775
00:37:57,770 --> 00:37:54,859
relevant fields and engages in

776
00:38:00,589 --> 00:37:57,780
conspiratorial thinking Australian

777
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:00,599
skeptic Inc recognizes anthropogenic

778
00:38:05,810 --> 00:38:03,450
climate change as a pressing global

779
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:05,820
concern we urge individuals

780
00:38:10,099 --> 00:38:07,920
organizations and governments to

781
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:10,109
prioritize limiting greenhouse gas

782
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:12,720
emissions and mitigate their negative

783
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:21,330
effects and that is which is very

784
00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:22,800
relevant at the moment the Australian

785
00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:25,200
skeptics Inc statement on climate change

786
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:27,920
and you can read that for yourself at

787
00:38:54,460 --> 00:38:36,640
[Music]

788
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:54,470
I reach it

789
00:38:59,559 --> 00:38:58,160
oh hi Trish hi would you like a coffee

790
00:39:01,960 --> 00:38:59,569
yeah thanks what are you working on I'm

791
00:39:03,809 --> 00:39:01,970
trying to come up with a new promo to

792
00:39:07,180 --> 00:39:03,819
play on the sceptic zone who's it for

793
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:07,190
the good thinking society in the UK you

794
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:09,920
know the oh yeah I know them the guys

795
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:11,690
who recently chased the homeopaths out

796
00:39:15,819 --> 00:39:13,760
of the UK Public Health System oh did

797
00:39:17,019 --> 00:39:15,829
they yeah they campaigned and lobbied

798
00:39:20,170 --> 00:39:17,029
government for a while and now you

799
00:39:21,490 --> 00:39:20,180
cannot get homeopathy on the NHS so they

800
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:21,500
can now spend public money on health

801
00:39:25,870 --> 00:39:23,510
care that works Yeah right look I'll

802
00:39:30,430 --> 00:39:25,880
mention that in the promo now their

803
00:39:32,289 --> 00:39:30,440
website is good thinking Society org and

804
00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:32,299
that website is a good resource for

805
00:39:36,250 --> 00:39:34,760
learning more about quackery thanks

806
00:39:41,970 --> 00:39:36,260
Trish that gives me something good to

807
00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:50,650
[Music]

808
00:39:56,089 --> 00:39:53,390
thank you for listening to the skeptic

809
00:39:58,370 --> 00:39:56,099
zone and as you would have heard earlier

810
00:40:00,859 --> 00:39:58,380
in the show interviews from me

811
00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:00,869
Canberra skeptics and their meetups

812
00:40:05,449 --> 00:40:02,400
their meetings there's another one

813
00:40:08,329 --> 00:40:05,459
coming along on the 16th of April so

814
00:40:10,689 --> 00:40:08,339
early notification for this may the odds

815
00:40:15,019 --> 00:40:10,699
be ever in your favor

816
00:40:17,870 --> 00:40:15,029
superstitions and elite athletes elite

817
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:17,880
sport as a healthy dose of uncertainty

818
00:40:23,449 --> 00:40:21,569
and the stakes are high athletes train

819
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:23,459
hard to prepare mentally and physically

820
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:26,640
to perform on the world stage learning

821
00:40:31,969 --> 00:40:29,249
to manage anxiety and get in the zone

822
00:40:34,609 --> 00:40:31,979
ooh maybe even in the sceptic zone is

823
00:40:37,459 --> 00:40:34,619
one way that sports psychologists help

824
00:40:39,439 --> 00:40:37,469
athletes Christine Dunn is a sports

825
00:40:42,019 --> 00:40:39,449
psychologist working in the Australian

826
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:42,029
Capital Territory Academy of Sport she

827
00:40:47,059 --> 00:40:43,680
has worked in the Australian and British

828
00:40:49,479 --> 00:40:47,069
elite sport systems with previous roles

829
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:49,489
at the Scottish Institute of Sport and

830
00:40:54,620 --> 00:40:52,079
Australian Institute of Sport well what

831
00:40:59,749 --> 00:40:54,630
that looks like a fascinating talk again

832
00:41:02,689 --> 00:40:59,759
if you head to wwk embrace skeptics org

833
00:41:04,339 --> 00:41:02,699
or look them up on Meetup you can find

834
00:41:07,849 --> 00:41:04,349
out more about that meeting that talk

835
00:41:11,140 --> 00:41:07,859
coming up on the 16th of April and thank

836
00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:11,150
you to those people because I was up

837
00:41:17,749 --> 00:41:15,150
very late last night I was up very late

838
00:41:21,799 --> 00:41:17,759
last night who went along to Maenads

839
00:41:24,349 --> 00:41:21,809
Love Shack in glebe just on Saturday

840
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:24,359
night in Australia from the videos that

841
00:41:28,130 --> 00:41:26,130
were being streamed it looked like a

842
00:41:30,799 --> 00:41:28,140
great success everybody was having a

843
00:41:33,949 --> 00:41:30,809
huge time wish I could have been there

844
00:41:35,689 --> 00:41:33,959
sorry I wasn't there Maynard and I hope

845
00:41:37,759 --> 00:41:35,699
you have something like that again

846
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:37,769
that was Maynard love shack but don't

847
00:41:42,140 --> 00:41:39,690
forget to check out maynard's podcasts

848
00:41:44,660 --> 00:41:42,150
and other work at Maynard comm dot au

849
00:41:46,459 --> 00:41:44,670
and I know I speak for Maynard when I

850
00:41:49,609 --> 00:41:46,469
say thank you to all those people who

851
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:49,619
support his podcasts and the skeptic

852
00:41:54,650 --> 00:41:52,410
zone via patreon or PayPal and you can

853
00:41:58,189 --> 00:41:54,660
do that with the skeptic zone anyway at

854
00:42:02,630 --> 00:41:58,199
skeptic zone TV without the people who

855
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:02,640
do contribute who do subscribe they

856
00:42:05,359 --> 00:42:02,880
would

857
00:42:07,130 --> 00:42:05,369
be no skeptic zone I hope to in the

858
00:42:09,380 --> 00:42:07,140
coming weeks once again visit the

859
00:42:11,660 --> 00:42:09,390
National Center for Science education in

860
00:42:13,999 --> 00:42:11,670
Oakland and talk to more of the

861
00:42:16,759 --> 00:42:14,009
fascinating researchers and scientists

862
00:42:18,499 --> 00:42:16,769
who work there as well as looking

863
00:42:21,380 --> 00:42:18,509
forward to some more reports coming in

864
00:42:24,529 --> 00:42:21,390
from my various reporters scattered

865
00:42:27,019 --> 00:42:24,539
around the world well mostly in

866
00:42:28,849 --> 00:42:27,029
Australia but for this week

867
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:28,859
this is Richard Saunders signing off

868
00:42:37,519 --> 00:42:35,730
from the Bay Area San Francisco you've

869
00:42:41,749 --> 00:42:37,529
been listening to the skeptic zone

870
00:42:45,319 --> 00:42:41,759
podcast please visit our website at WWF

871
00:42:47,900 --> 00:42:45,329
Tech's on TV for show notes contacts and

872
00:42:51,980 --> 00:42:47,910
to access the bat catalog of episodes

873
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:51,990
going back to 2008 you can follow the

874
00:42:57,319 --> 00:42:53,930
skeptic zone podcast on twitter at

875
00:43:00,799 --> 00:42:57,329
skeptic zone visit our facebook page or

876
00:43:03,710 --> 00:43:00,809
leave a review on itunes you can also

877
00:43:06,740 --> 00:43:03,720
support the skeptic zone via patreon or

878
00:43:09,380 --> 00:43:06,750
PayPal the skeptic zone podcast is an

879
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:09,390
independent production the views and

880
00:43:13,490 --> 00:43:11,250
opinions expressed on the skeptic zone

881
00:43:16,009 --> 00:43:13,500
are not necessarily those of Australian

882
00:43:18,750 --> 00:43:16,019
skeptics or any other sceptical

883
00:43:32,370 --> 00:43:29,220
oh he's doing his podcast yeah I

884
00:43:34,260 --> 00:43:32,380
recognize oh he gets in podcast mode I

885
00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:34,270
do and to those people who listen off

886
00:43:37,980 --> 00:43:35,680
for the music yes it's the dice game

887
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:37,990
again I'm here with a Bay Area skeptics

888
00:43:43,230 --> 00:43:41,530
hi guy and it was what a thrill it was

889
00:43:44,850 --> 00:43:43,240
for me to give a talk here tonight in

890
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:44,860
Berkeley about psychic detective

891
00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:47,050
fantastic thank you I really enjoy it

892
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:48,910
it was a nice crowd that came up and I

893
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:51,250
think there they injured it so anyway

894
00:43:54,660 --> 00:43:53,050
we're gonna do what we do occasionally

895
00:43:56,460 --> 00:43:54,670
on the Skip exam I've got a ten sided

896
00:43:59,430 --> 00:43:56,470
die right here can you all agree yes

897
00:44:01,560 --> 00:43:59,440
they're all examining intention so all

898
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:01,570
those people who think I'd cheat I've

899
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:02,890
got my referees here

900
00:44:06,660 --> 00:44:05,050
Eugenie Scott would you do the honors

901
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:06,670
now Eugene he's gonna roll the die the

902
00:44:11,550 --> 00:44:08,530
first time folks at home use your

903
00:44:13,590 --> 00:44:11,560
psychic predicting power will it be one

904
00:44:18,330 --> 00:44:13,600
to ten here we go genies rolling the

905
00:44:20,430 --> 00:44:18,340
dice and it's number say six six is the

906
00:44:23,250 --> 00:44:20,440
first number folks bill and your was

907
00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:23,260
gonna be six alright here we go the next

908
00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:28,740
seven so you're so smart I knew is gonna

909
00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:32,230
be something J you did six seven and

910
00:44:43,700 --> 00:44:37,089
eight six seven eight

911
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:47,609
we might need six seven eight okay one

912
00:44:54,299 --> 00:44:50,970
more special roll of the dice here we go

913
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:54,309
four oh there goes that know what

914
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:56,079
everybody in the room gets a turn here

915
00:45:01,650 --> 00:44:58,480
we go one more one more folks at home

916
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:01,660
five one so there goes that straight

917
00:45:14,339 --> 00:45:04,690
theory now that we define we needed a

918
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:14,349
five well that's right well you go I

919
00:45:23,849 --> 00:45:22,000
knew all the time come on obvious Oh

920
00:45:26,999 --> 00:45:23,859
someone who doesn't listen to the bid

921
00:45:29,789 --> 00:45:27,009
after the music of the booth okay so the

922
00:45:31,380 --> 00:45:29,799
game is I play with the audience to use

923
00:45:32,970 --> 00:45:31,390
your predicting power and see if you can

924
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:32,980
use your psychic power to predict what

925
00:45:36,539 --> 00:45:34,569
I'm going to roll with the die and

926
00:45:39,630 --> 00:45:36,549
you've got a one in ten shot and people

927
00:45:43,019 --> 00:45:39,640
play along and was it you were telling

928
00:45:45,269 --> 00:45:43,029
me yeah he got him alright one week

929
00:45:46,140 --> 00:45:45,279
showing I think the last one in January

930
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:46,150
yeah yeah

931
00:45:55,230 --> 00:45:51,250
ticket so 1003 normally at 73 he got the

932
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:55,240
mold correction Kenyan state lottery

933
00:46:00,660 --> 00:45:56,890
numbers for don't think I can repeat it

934
00:46:03,809 --> 00:46:00,670
so you just have to repeat lottery

935
00:46:05,490 --> 00:46:03,819
numbers I've tried I have not yet been

936
00:46:07,650 --> 00:46:05,500
successful I don't know if you've ever

937
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:07,660
seen the Darren brown system the Darren

938
00:46:12,990 --> 00:46:11,200
brown show the system where he tosses a

939
00:46:14,759 --> 00:46:13,000
coin 10 times in a row and it comes up

940
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:14,769
heads every time and then he explains

941
00:46:20,660 --> 00:46:16,560
how he does it

942
00:46:24,740 --> 00:46:20,670
he does it he does it absolutely no is

943
00:46:28,220 --> 00:46:24,750
it possible of course it's fun look is

944
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:28,230
it inevitable yes so how does he do it

945
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:31,440
the same way that you test psychic

946
00:46:40,220 --> 00:46:38,160
detectives perseverance only shows that

947
00:46:43,370 --> 00:46:40,230
part of the video it's fantastic

948
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:43,380
tossing a basketball over behind your

949
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:45,090
head and getting and you just film it

950
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:47,490
film it villain film it and you keep the

951
00:46:53,180 --> 00:46:49,680
one that works yes what's the name of

952
00:46:57,590 --> 00:46:53,190
that met the mathematician from Stanford

953
00:47:00,590 --> 00:46:57,600
persi diaconis yeah he can flip he can

954
00:47:03,740 --> 00:47:00,600
flip yep

955
00:47:05,330 --> 00:47:03,750
cuz he's really good at practiced for a

956
00:47:07,970 --> 00:47:05,340
long time it's not like he's just taping

957
00:47:09,860 --> 00:47:07,980
the the hits so you know there are wait

958
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:09,870
this is why we have magicians boys and

959
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:11,610
girls here we have people who are very

960
00:47:15,110 --> 00:47:13,290
good at sleight of hand and very good at

961
00:47:16,580 --> 00:47:15,120
tricking and this is why folks if you

962
00:47:19,110 --> 00:47:16,590
live in the Bay Area you should join the